We go at least partially out of a sense of obligation. A lot of the benefits are peripheral: the social aspect, meeting people with similar interests, the chatting before and after. Checking in, being seen as someone who attends poetry readings. But it's rare that the "sermon" itself is really all that bang-up. Every now and then if you're lucky you have a "spiritual" experience and that keeps you going back regularly or semi-regularly ... the rest of the time it's pretty boring, and it's socially inappropriate to walk out or read a magazine or put on headphones or do sudoku while you're there; you just gotta stick it out. On the plus this does make the brunch (bar) afterward especially rewarding and sweet.
Analogy courtesy of John Cotter. What do you think? Seems pretty apt to me.
January 18, 2009
Poetry readings are like church: Discuss
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19 comments:
I think I'd rather go to a service than a reading. In fact, I know it sounds awful, but I'd rather go to two services in a row of the same sermon than go to a reading. I think readings are less like church services than they are like stand-up comedy, and stand-up comedy is usually pretty awkward and difficult for me to sit through.
There are some poets I'd like to support by attending their readings in the future, but mostly on a friend-to-friend level, not on the level of listener-critic.
There are some poets who are great performers, but if you look at their work on the page, you wonder what the heck they're ACTUALLY trying to do. And there are some poets who squeak out or tremble their way through a reading, or they read a poem like they'd read from a science textbook, or like they're reading Shel Silverstein to a group of kindergartners, but their work is actually really beautiful and well-crafted on the page.
I don't think most poets who give readings are expecting criticism, anyway. They're usually hoping to sell work by confronting sympathetic listeners with it face-to-face, or they're hoping to reunite with distant friends, or they're hoping to meet new ones. These aren't bad reasons to give a reading, but I think these are the reasons why we're comparing readings to church in the first place.
If other poets are getting anything out of readings- even on a basic social-interaction level, then I'm glad there are some who are willing to organize and participate.
Shortly before the end-of-year poetry readings at a well-regarded writing program, all the fictionistas were lamenting the church-like boredom of the poetry reading ahead. Suffice it to say, we were in a bar fortifying ourselves--in some ways as much for the lavish introductions as the readings themselves.
Then, a stroke of genius. Someone at the table brought up the idea of a word-game. Each participant got to make a list of 10 words (5 intro words and 5 poem words). The game itself was simple beyond belief. The winner was the player whose words occurred the most times in the course of the poetry readings.
As it turned out, my own words were just okay--I picked 3 zingers, the winner had six with a couple that were used more than once--but I can honestly say that I have never payed more constant and uniform attention, start-to-finish, at any poetry reading I have ever attended.
I recommend this game to anyone.
Brooklyn: I tend to agree that good readers don't necessarily good poetry make and vice versa. I always wish I had handouts.
Anon: I like it. Although I probably would have made it into a drinking game.
I've yet to go to a reading where anybody actually talks about poetry, and I’ve even been to some where nobody bothers to read any either. Maybe I need to get out more.
Your description of a typical reading is spot on, but I’d say it’s more like a miniature trade show. The readers are trying to sell something, and most of the attendees are there to make connections and schmooze in hopes that they will get a chance to sell something. Of course the difference is that no one is going to make any money.
At least where I go to church, I’m guaranteed a thoughtful sermon and the people I meet are there to build a sense of community and fellowship. If more readings were like that, I’d go. I guess it all depends on what you think your relationship is with church. Or poetry, for that matter.
I disagree. I like readings.
Of course, I realize with whom I disagree--John--but I do disagree.
Most of the readings I attend I'm either reading in or know the reader. So cross off the readings I read in (I love those readings, of course). As for the readings I go to where I know the reader (either personally or by their work): sometimes dissapointing, but more often than not, kind of thrilling. Seeing Fanny Howe read in a shitty bar in Somerville? Awesome. Seeing John Taggart read an hour-long poem to a group of wealthy donors who thot they were going to hear a lecture about Stevens? Hilarious and awesome. Hearing Mary Caponegro or Jessica Smith or Joshua Harmon or Ramsey Campbell or Douglas Coupland or Robert Creeley or C.D. Wright... real highlights. As is hearing John Cotter for the 1,000th time (I really like hearing him read!).
If I can actually concentrate, I enjoy myself--even if the pleasure is in figuring out what's wrong.
(Poetry slams are a response to "boring" readings--they are meant to be an antidote to all you're complaining about--and I DO hate going to poetry slams. Poetry slams are THE WORST. They are the anti-Christ of poetry--and church!)
Don't go to readings given by people who suck and then say readings suck. Ha!
I like readings. As long as they aren't at the Poetry Project, usually. And also the Bowery.
In New York the readings are usually pretty relaxed and convivial--these are the ones in bars I'm talking about. I don't think the focus is on selling books--it's part of it, of course, but you're not thinking about that when the audience is really into it. (That's also true of stand-up comedy, I think--if other people laugh, I laugh too. It's contagious.) The liveliness is probably due to the fact that most of the people in these audiences are our age.
The Poetry Project can be forgiven for seeming too much like church, I think, since it is literally a church. I've only been to the Bowery once, but I liked it. (The readings they have there on Saturday usually start too early for me.)
They sure left the inaugural reading in droves...
Adam: I'm not saying this isn't partially about me, but I often don't get a lot out of a live reading even when the person reading not only doesn't suck, but is someone I greatly admire. I'm not saying I haven't been to great readings. I'm just saying it's not enough for the reader not to suck.
I enjoy poetry, so it makes sense I'd enjoy readings. But some poets suck all the life out of their poems. On the other hand, some are awesome. Comparing a gum-smacking grad student at a bar, or Claudia Rankine's soul-numbing robot-recitations with readings I've been to by Thomas Lux, Terence Hayes, Sonya Sanchez, Peggie Shumaker or Dean Young; it summarizes about everything that's wrong or right with poetry read aloud.
Cut out the self-indulgent, insincere, insecure, parts or those poets whose stuff is written for the page, not the voice, or whose stuff you just don't particularly like, and readings are awesome.
Maybe it's 'cos I'm curating/hosting them, and everyone loves their own baby, but I've gotten such a kick out of hearing the last season of poets at Stain Bar... Seriously some of the best poetry I've heard in '08 was at Stain. And not everyone was a poet I knew or whose work I knew well. I kind of love being poetry's choirboy. Just sayin. ;)=~~~
Thanks for everyone's comments. It kind of seems like some people are saying "Poetry readings are good when they're good." Didn't you ever hear that one of the definitions of a good theory is that there's something to be disproved/disagree with? ;)
Generally speaking, as a public activity I like poetry readings much better than: parties, rock concerts, sporting events, and going to the movies (ranked from highest to lowest in terms of personal preference).
My general preference is for interactivity in public events. Poetry readings are often social occasions before and after, and also include the chance to react to a human being just being, you know, right in front of you without a huge wall of separation, something that happens very rarely.
Of course, for me the poetry reading does indeed involve the party after. The close listening to another person goes on for usually just the right amount of time. And a poetry reading and party is better than just a party because it provides context and content for conversation.
Rock concerts can be fun with the right people, but of course you can't really talk much unless you get out of the concert. But the opportunity for physical movement is great.
Sports are okay, but they're best with a good group of people. Watching sports on one's own is a minor form of entertainment at best.
I like watching movies at home, but going to the movies: ugh. One more chance to remain alienated, passive and silent in the dark, after a long day of remaining alienated, passive, and silent.
Every now and then, with a good movie, going to the movies can be okay, but mainly it makes me feel weird and tired and lonely, even when I'm with others.
Putting the issue of $$$ aside, my preferred events order would be
1) good movies, by myself (I enjoy forgetting who I am for a couple hours)
2) good poetry readings
3) good rock concerts (though I haven't been to any concerts since 2005)
4) sporting events in which I have a rooting interest and spectating companions
5) bad poetry readings, for the ensuing ego boost
6) parties
I don't like parties either. That lack of focus makes me uncomfortable. I too like there to be some kind of central event, a gravitational pull away from the socializing, and then a release afterward back into socializing via a slingshot effect similar to the one used by Kirk and crew to travel back in time in STIV: The Voyage Home.
Interesting. I'd definitely put party as #1. Rock shows are as variable as poetry readings in quality, but when bad they're more offensive/annoying than boring. I almost never see movies. Sporting events even less (never). My list would go:
1. Party
2. Play or other live performance
3. (TIE) Music event if inexpensive
3. (TIE) Poetry reading if preceded/followed by social activity
This is really mixing active and passive activities though. I think parties are active. I'd also rather play parlor games or something like pool, darts or bocce ball than sit still at a poetry reading.
UNLESS IT'S REALLY GOOD.
Elisa, I didn't know bocce was an option! I'd rather play bocce than sit through a service.
Bocce--that does change things. I had only been thinking of what I think of as the typical party fourfecta: sitting, standing, drinking, talking. Games are a definite improvement.
word veri: reductin. Ask your doctor if Reductin is right for you.
Elisa, do you/John feel the same about readings regardless of genre? How about fiction readings? Nonfiction ones?
I've only been to a few fiction readings and have similar difficulties -- my mind tends to wander when I'm only getting information aurally, and I lose track of the story. Same thing happens when I try to listen to books on tape. Or attend meetings by phone. I prefer being engaged visually as well; that's been the case at some readings. I've been to very few nonfiction readings. In any case I consider myself a poet which is part of where the church metaphor comes in ... a method of practicing my "faith" ...
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